Epic Entrepreneurs
Welcome to Epic Entrepreneurs! What does it take to build a real and thriving business in today’s world? As entrepreneurs and business owners, we went into business to have more freedom of time and money. Yet, the path of growing a business isn’t always filled with sunshine and rainbows. In this chart-topping show, host Bill Gilliland; author of the best-selling book “The Coach Approach” leverages his decades of experience coaching proven entrepreneurs to make more money, grow the right teams, and find the freedom of EPIC Entrepreneurship.
Epic Entrepreneurs
Who Do You Need to Become? Featuring Jason De Los Santos.
What if the question wasn't "What skills do I have?" but rather "Who do I need to become?" This transformative mindset shift forms the foundation of our enlightening conversation with Jason De Los Santos, founder of Pixelated Stories, who shares how this approach has fueled his entrepreneurial journey.
Jason reveals how he transformed from a self-described "recovering introvert" into a successful marketing entrepreneur by reframing his natural curiosity as a superpower rather than a limitation. "I used to think that was seen negatively," he explains, "and so I just turned that sort of negative thing into what now is something that helps me in my day-to-day life and job." This authenticity allows him to connect deeply with local business clients who need help telling their stories and finding their ideal customers.
ABOUT JASON:
Jason is the founder of Pixelated Stories, where he helps small and medium-sized businesses turn their websites into 24/7 sales machines. With a focus on long-term digital strategies like SEO, email marketing, and CRM automation, he’s passionate about simplifying tech for business owners who feel overwhelmed by it all. Based in Asheville, NC, Jason lives with his wife and two kids and spends his free time songwriting, lifting weights, and taking photos.
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Bill
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Bill
Hey and welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs. And I've got a cool guest. He's a friend of Action Coach, a friend of he's helping us out now with a bunch of stuff Jason De Los Santos, with Pixelated Stories. I'm glad to have him. But before we get to that, I just want to mention to keep your eye out for the Asheville Business Summit coming in the fall, coming in September. It's going to be happening right around the one-year anniversary of Helene, and so it's all going to be all about resilience and building up and building back Asheville and the resurgence of our economy here, and you're going to want to attend it. It's going to be pretty awesome. And I also want to mention if you've got specific needs, if you're a business owner and you'd like to sit down with me or one of our coaches, we've got a great offer right now and that's for two free weeks of coaching. All you got to do is just hit us up here. You can email me directly, williamgilliland at actioncoachcom, or you can go on our website and book an appointment with me and we'll get it all set up for you. If you have questions about what that involves, it's pretty much what it says we're going to give you two free weeks of coaching and if you like what you see, then maybe we'll do some business, and if you don't, we'll still be friends. So looking forward to it.
Speaker 1:Hey, I got Jason here. Welcome to the show, jason. Thank you so much, bill. Thanks for having me. So Jason's company is called Pixelated Stories. What the heck is Pixelated Stories?
Speaker 2:So it's a marketing company for local businesses and I can talk a little bit about the history of it, but essentially, the name is that we all have a story to tell and, as humans, we connect with stories Customers are looking for they might not consciously think about it that way, but they are looking for the right story that suits what they're looking for, what they need, whether it's a product or a service, and we're just all digital now. 99% of us are online, and why not share your story with that customer that is looking, looks like everybody has that perfect customer and that every customer has like that perfect company that they're looking for, and so I just try to connect the two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I always say that everybody's got a book in them and, of course, I probably first heard that from somebody who's trying to help people write books, but it's still. But I think it's true and so it's, it's, it's the same thing, right? Everybody's got a story. Yeah, and I think we can. We can all do a better job of telling that, telling that story. So let me ask you some questions about your business. If you had to start over in your business, what would you do differently?
Speaker 2:Um, I think about that every once in a while. I think first of all would be not to reinvent the wheel. I love researching and planning and that whole thing, but for the types of businesses that I have now and have owned in the past, it's like these problems have been figured out by somebody else. And I'm not trying to send rockets to Pluto. I don't need to have that type of business. I'm just trying to create a good business to help, to be of service to people here locally in Asheville and WNC, and the problems that I have now have been figured out by other people. So I wish I would have learned to ask more questions to people that have been in the places that I've been and that have already figured out how to do it. Talk to more people, minimize those risks and just move forward and not think about it so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good advice. That's good advice to reach out. I think we're taught in school to do your own work and, frankly, that's bad advice when it comes to business. Go talk to the people who've blazed the trails, go talk to the people who've already done it and, if you know, they've got, and, and even even the outside looking in things. So what have been some of your biggest learnings as a business owner?
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, I think, um, looking at competitors reaching out like I regularly reach out to people that are quote unquote competitors more people it always surprises me how people are so willing to share if they feel like you're coming from a good place, not trying to steal, but just more to add to the community. I think the other big thing is that everybody is making it up as they go along. Uh, that everybody's making it up as they go along. I used to think that, uh, you know, at some point you were sort of crowned an expert in whatever area and that's probably a BS.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, we're all just like, we start somewhere, wherever that is, and we just have to figure out how to get to where we're going. Uh, so, like in in my industry as a marketer, um, you know, when I first started years ago had this feeling of like, oh, like, I don't know this out of the other, but everybody that I've talked to didn't know any of it at some point and they just picked up one skill at a time, figured it out, applied it, you know, help the customer learn more, and they just kept that cycle going of just, you know, learning something new, becoming better at it, helping somebody, serving somebody with that skill set and just getting better over time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't know everything. I mean, I remember sitting down with a guy one time we tried to figure out, like, how many different sort of methods of marketing there were, and I think we were up to 27. And that wasn't like dividing out social media, that was like social media was one of those. I mean it was you know. I mean because there's, you know, hundreds of social media sites. But yeah, it's pretty interesting. Yeah, and no one's ever been where you are in your business at this particular time in history. They may have been similar years ago, but they're not there. So, you're right, we got to figure it out years ago, but they're not there. So you're right, we got to figure it out.
Speaker 2:What do you think? Some of the misconceptions are about running a business A lot. So let's see, on the one hand, for example, I have one friend right now who he works for someone and he's considering starting a business, and what he constantly says man, you're so brave for having your own business, and I kind of laugh at it just because I've been running my own businesses forever. But I think it's just one of those things, like you just learn anything, right.
Speaker 2:I find it incredible that we drive the cars, which are these giant killing machines.
Speaker 2:We figured out how to use, how to, you know, use the clutch and the gas and brake and whatnot. And I feel like if you can learn how to do that, you can learn most any other skill, um, so I think that's one of the big things that I I um hear about from from folks that are trying to get into business, um, and then the other part is, just like I mentioned, is that you can, um, sorry, the other part is that instead of trying to figure out everything at once, it's just trying to figure out, like, what's the next thing that I need to solve, or the or what's the problem that I have, and just figured that one thing out. We don't have to solve every single thing at once. It's just like what's the next thing that will get me, uh, to the next level, and then just repeating that over and over again. So I feel like we get very overwhelmed with thinking that we have to know all the things and figure out all the things at once, and that's just not the case.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a pretty wise man once told me hey, it's better to figure out the what and then worry about the how, and then you get overwhelmed with the how. The way to do that is to chunk it down into what's the next thing. That's going to help you reach the next level, and so I love that. I love that. I love the next thing to solve the next problem, and then the next thing to solve that problem, and then, yeah, chunking it down into little pieces. So what do you attribute your growth to?
Speaker 2:I'm constantly curious. I love learning. I was trying to figure out. You know what's the next thing. I do like to spend a little bit of my week in just sort of serendipity, whether it's meeting people, that has no like I have no agenda. There's just trying to meet folks that are interesting, that are doing that are smarter than me, which you know. There's a lot of those folks just trying to learn about new technology, new tool these days, especially with AI. So I'm like your tech nerd friend. I love technology, love tinkering with things, and so that can keep me. That could be a full-time job, just trying to understand AI, how you can apply it to your business, to your life, for fun. So that's kind of how my brain works just how do things work, and trying to work it backwards.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've noticed that. I'm naturally curious too, and some people would call that nosy. That's the negative way to say curious. But yeah, we've noticed that a lot of our clients are curious, that curiosity is one of their things. How did you establish that habit? That's an interesting habit of just allowing time in your what you call it serendipity for things to just flow or happen. How did you establish that? How did you come across that? That's not usual.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think in the in the past. So I the way that I say it is that I'm a recovering introvert and so as a as an introvert, you know, the typical thing is you see, somebody is in a room full of other people and you're sort of like this you know, fly on the wall, you're observing from afar, and I always had these questions of like, oh, I'm curious about this person or this thing or how this works, and whatever. I got over that. We don't have to talk about that right now, but I just let those questions that I would have as being an introvert or sort of like an outcast, and just use that as more like a superpower in the sense of like, I just want to know more about this person. I want to know more about this person, I want to know more about how this thing works.
Speaker 2:Um, and so it used that sort of uh, what I used to think was kind of an annoying trait, uh, and just turn that into, uh, something that people enjoy. Like, people love answering questions about themselves or about what they do, about their profession or about their family or whatever it is. And, um, I used to um, think that that was seen negatively, and so I just turned that sort of negative thing into what now is something that helps me in my day-to-day life and job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that people enjoy talking about something they know something about, or themselves, and probably in the reverse order of that, but yeah, I think that's interesting, and probably in the reverse order of that, but yeah, I think that's interesting. I want to talk about this introvert thing because a lot of people, a lot of business people and a lot of business owners, I mean, I think they're more introverts than extroverts. Right, I mean statistically in the world. What, like I mean, did you just decide one day, hey, I'm just going to go ask people questions, I'm just going to deal with this thing that you know, in this world, where it seems like it's a fallacy, it seems like it rewards extroverts, but it's not A lot of. Yeah, I found that, for example, a lot of public speakers are actually introverts.
Speaker 2:It's just that you know they had to get over something to be able to. Yeah, absolutely. I think that roles like the roles that you assign to yourself or to other people or things, can be really powerful or really dangerous, because how we see ourselves and we attach a label to ourselves like, oh, I'm an introvert, and so then we take on that role in all parts of our lives. And so the way that I started thinking about this I forget where I started seeing this from but instead of thinking, okay, I want to get to this thing, this goal or whatever marker in my life, these are the skill sets and the tools that I have, so how can I get there?
Speaker 2:That's so limiting, as opposed to I want to get to this place. What? Who do I need to become to get there? And then being able to work backwards and saying, oh well, I'm not really good with the finance portion, how do I figure that out? Take a class, go talk to somebody, whatever it is, and then just work backwards. From who do I need to become? As opposed to, these are my limited set of skills. I may or may not get there, so that's kind of how I got to that place.
Speaker 1:That's really intuitively smart, because I think that we have a formula in Action Coach that says be times do equals have, and I think most people focus on in order to have the things they want. Yeah, who do you need to become and what do you need to do? But most people end up saying, well, what do I do? How can I do this? What do I need to do? They focus on the do to do and then you end up not having, you can't get there because there's only so much of you. You run out of you, you run out of time, essentially. And so, yeah, the right question is who do I need to become so that I can do the next thing? It's back to solving the problem. Who do I need to become to solve the next problem? Essentially, it's back to what? Yeah, it's tying together nicely. So I love that. I love that. Who do I need to become? That's a great title for this episode.
Speaker 2:It's more fun, it's more liberating than thinking like, oh, I don't know x, though I can't do it. Like you're, right away, you just cut your limbs off. As opposed to like okay, like what, what I need to do to get there. Like it's much more liberating to paint a picture of where you want to go, how you want to get there.
Speaker 1:Then just like, okay, I guess I can't, and I just you know, yeah, yeah, I know the picture, have the dream, have the goal, but if you knew how to do it, you would have already done it. Yeah, so you have to become somebody else so you can figure out what you need to do to do it. You can run out of yourself like how much you can do, but you can't run out of who you can become.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's infinite. You can become more. So I know you're a big family guy. How do you balance business and personal?
Speaker 2:That's always a challenge, so one I work out of the house, so that helps when, for example, the kids will come home in a little bit and I'll be here.
Speaker 2:I love opening the door for them and receiving them and just being there physically and just emotionally for them, and it just comes and goes. Some days I'll have projects and what I like to do is just ask my family for almost like permission to say like, hey, I'm going to spend some more time with this work thing. Are you guys okay with that? Uh, just because I feel like I have to constantly earn my right to be, uh, a dad and husband and not just assume that I've already earned it for the things that I've done in the past. Like I just constantly have to work for it, the things that I've done in the past, like I just constantly have to work for it. So I think that's one way that just keeps me focused on my family is just that regular conversation, communication, what, what do you need from me, how do I do this and the other and how do I keep us fulfilled. And having that balance with the family helps me know how much work I can do for my, for my clients.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I love that. That's a good way to look at it. So what qualities do you look for in people that you might employ or collaborate with, or however you want to look at it?
Speaker 2:The changes, obviously depending or who I'm looking for. But, for example, I recently hired a developer just to help me with some of the web stuff, and I mean in that role I could have hired 20 million people. Like there's just so many of these folks. One of the things that I try to do is to figure out what is the sort of like the, the small test that I can offer this person to see if one, if they're paying attention, like, do they spot? I think this is something that you did recently. It's just seeing are people paying attention?
Speaker 2:Because when we're working together, I'm not looking for somebody that is expected to receive every minute detail about their job. That's just not me, and so I want somebody that can take more general direction of here's the outcome and here's sort of your boundaries, now go do it. So I try to look for those kinds of traits of people that have had some independence in the roles, that they speak freely. I don't want, yes, people. I'm looking for folks that can contribute, that they speak freely, that I don't want, yes, people, I'm looking for folks that can contribute. And there are a couple other things, but those are a couple of the things that I look for at the beginning, it's just how much attention to the detail do they seem to have, and can they take the reins once we've gotten to a point of comfortability?
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, me too. I couldn't have said it better. I mean, it's unbelievable. All right, I got a little bit of a quick fire round. As you know, bepic is an acronym and, just like a sentence or two about each part of it, the B stands for bring the energy. What's your thought around bringing energy, or getting energy, or energy in general?
Speaker 2:energy, or getting energy or energy in general. Um, I, uh I don't know I forget the exact quote, but it's something like, like energy, I love to go with the flow of energy. If I am feeling like I have a lot of energy, I will try to use that. Uh, on days where it's like cloudy and rainy and sort of doldrum, like I would use that just to be more creative, for example, uh, it's like one of those things that you can't squash energy, like it just be transformed into something else, and so I just love to go with the flow and still continue to drive forward whatever that looks like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or even finding the flow, Like what gets you in the flow right. It's pretty interesting. Okay, the E is education. What's your thoughts on education?
Speaker 2:A lot of feelings about this. I feel like education is just entertainment if it's not applied. In a world where we have pretty much all the education at our fingertips, we choose to use it or not how we see fit, and it's much cooler to feel like you're smart than to actually do anything with it.
Speaker 1:I love that Education is just entertainment unless it's applied. Wow, I love that. I love that Planning P is for planning.
Speaker 2:One of my favorite quotes is everybody gets punched in the face. Uh sorry, everybody's got to plan until they get punched in the face. The Mike Tyson quote Right and um, so I? I'm a planner at heart, and so I've learned to plan less and do more and take action faster Still plan but then be able to make a veer.
Speaker 1:I love that. Yeah, good, okay, okay. The I is inspiration. What are your thoughts around the word inspiration?
Speaker 2:For me, inspiration is just surrounding myself with really smart people, just folks that have done things that I admire in business, people that have been already where I'm trying to go. That's inspirational because I can see it's not somebody on some social media reel telling me how I can make a million dollars in two hours. Like I want to talk to people that have done it in the real world and have shed the blood, sweat and tears and actually done the thing that I'm trying to do. That's inspirational to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that the C stands for commitment.
Speaker 2:What are your thoughts around commitment? With that commitment, I feel like if I kind of have an extreme view on this that if you're not committed, so either you're not drowning or you don't want that thing deeply enough to do anything about it, and so it's just much more comfortable to just sit sort of like in limbo in the middle and just dream about what could be, instead of actually doing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it makes sense. I like that. Yeah, if you're in the middle, probably not committed, it's like being on the fence, I guess. Either you know you either got to get on one side or the other, depending on whether it's I love the way you said it desperate, or you didn't desire it enough. That makes a lot of sense to me. Okay, here's a good one. What do you wish somebody had told you that they didn't, that you would like to tell somebody now?
Speaker 2:There is a lot, but I think a couple of things I mentioned earlier is like everybody's just making it up as they go along.
Speaker 2:You know, I used to think I used to see somebody that was like I don't know the guru or the top person in their field. I'm like, oh, like you know they're an expert, but they got there somehow. They just spent a lot of whatever it is you know whether it's time or effort or just that they did something to get there and that they're like, in a way, there are no experts, because the more that you learn about a topic, the more you feel like you still have to go Like, the more that you feel like you have to learn. You know there are these like concentric circles about knowledge and mastery and when you get to that top level then you figure out the smaller things that make the biggest difference and the biggest points of levers. But I feel like anybody can choose to be an expert in something. Somebody has to be an expert in a field or in an area, and so why not you?
Speaker 1:Oh, I like that. Somebody has to be an expert, why not you? Wow, yeah, that's powerful. That'll get you out of your introverted seat and then get to go ask some questions and go learn some stuff, won't it Right?
Speaker 2:So do you have any other words of advice for business owners looking to grow. Of the conversations that I have with, most of my clients are small businesses who have either a professional service company or like a home service company, and they're great at doing the thing. They're great with their hands, or maybe a professional service person, they're good with the numbers and getting the books right, but when it comes to the technology or the marketing side of things, they get really overwhelmed. And one of the things that I tell folks is first of all, you just have to market. You have to advertise, like advertising essentially means to be known. You have to make people know something about you or your service, and you talked earlier about all the different ways to market or advertise and it's really overwhelming if you think about all of those. But instead my suggestion to people is just choose one. Let's call it a marketing channel. That ties in with a natural ability.
Speaker 2:So, are you a good writer? Are you a good speaker? Do you like to create videos or something like that? And go with that. You're going to suck at it, and that's fine, we all do, but that'll make it so much more long, lasting and better in the end than if you say, like I got to be on Instagram and I got to be on TikTok and I got to go on YouTube and I got to do in network and all these kinds of things and like you're just going to get burnt out and waste all the time that you spent on it. So choose the one area. Figure out how to. Not even figure out how to do it is just figure out how to spend the time consistently over a long period of time and eventually you'll learn how to do it just just by a matter of spending time in it like pretty much anything else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, you're going to get better with it. All right, so if somebody wants to get in touch with you, what's the best way?
Speaker 2:All right. So if somebody wants to get in touch with you, what's the best way? My website is pixelatedstoriesnet and I have my contact information there. We can set up a meeting. Like I mentioned, most of my customers are people who need local customers, and so I help them with either creating an online presence so they can show up when people are searching for them, or just to actively look for customers. If customers looking for something like plumbing near me, for example, accountant near me, like something that you need a local customer and that customer is looking for a company near them, that's my sweet spot of the people that I can serve the best.
Speaker 1:Perfect, love it, love it, pixelatedstoriesnet, and we'll put that in. We'll put it in the show notes. Hey, fantastic, this is. Thanks so much for being here. It's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much, bill, and make sure people listening. I'm just doing this for Bill is if you like the podcast, like it. Just take one minute out of your day and like that podcast. It will help a ton to make sure that more people hear Bill's interviews and stories.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it allows us to do more cool stuff too. So there's a lot. There's a lot to it. So, hey, I just want to put in another memory Like listen, just keep your eyes open for the Asheville business summit coming in September. You're going to want to be part of it. It is going to be big. We bring in great outside speakers and great local facilitators. It's just a lot of fun, a lot of learning and it's going to be great for our economy here in Asheville. So we're looking forward to seeing you there, hey, and until next time, all the best.