Epic Entrepreneurs
Welcome to Epic Entrepreneurs! What does it take to build a real and thriving business in today’s world? As entrepreneurs and business owners, we went into business to have more freedom of time and money. Yet, the path of growing a business isn’t always filled with sunshine and rainbows. In this chart-topping show, host Bill Gilliland; author of the best-selling book “The Coach Approach” leverages his decades of experience coaching proven entrepreneurs to make more money, grow the right teams, and find the freedom of EPIC Entrepreneurship.
Epic Entrepreneurs
From Recession to Success: How BCA Architecture Grew Through Community with Brent Campbell and Erin Foy
What happens when you launch an architecture firm on the very day a recession begins? For Brent Campbell, founder of BCA Architecture and Design, that seemingly terrible timing in 2007 became the foundation for a thriving Asheville-based practice that now employs eight people and handles projects ranging from custom homes to commercial buildings across Western North Carolina.
Joining host Bill Gilliland, Brent and fellow architect Erin Foy share the remarkable journey of building their firm without conventional business strategies or aggressive marketing plans. Instead, they've grown organically by responding to community needs, building relationships, and creating positive experiences that generate word-of-mouth referrals and repeat clients.
The conversation explores the unique challenges architects face in educating clients who've never worked with design professionals before.
What truly sets BCA apart is their approach to building a team focused on versatility, adaptability, and positivity. Rather than seeking specific technical skills, they look for team members who can shift gears quickly, communicate effectively, and maintain enthusiasm throughout long project timelines. This flexible mindset has served them well through economic changes, the pandemic, and even natural disasters like Hurricane Helene.
Drawing inspiration from Asheville's natural beauty and resilient community, BCA continues to evolve without rigid long-term planning. Their story offers valuable insights for entrepreneurs in any field about building a sustainable business that responds to opportunity while maintaining core values and commitment to quality.
Want to learn more about BCA Architecture and Design? Visit them at bcavl.com or stop by their office on Asheville's South Slope.
Guest contact information:
Brent: Bacampbell@mac.com
Erin: Erin@bcavl.com
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Bill
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Bill
Hey there, welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs. I'm Bill Gilliland, your host. I am the principal at Action Coach, business Growth Partners and one of the founders of the Asheville Business Summit. I am super pumped. Today I have Brent and Aaron from BCA Architecture and Design. I can't wait to hear their story. So welcome to the podcast. Tell us a little bit about yourselves and how you got here.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm Brent Campbell. I'm the owner and principal of the architecture firm. We started this in 2007. I've been working in Nashville for about three or four years at some other firms and learning and after traveling around and working and going to school in different places, and I started this in 2007, the day that the recession hit, which was not great timing, but it worked out as you're kind of learning how to start something new. It's probably, in retrospect, good timing, but over the years we've've grown to staff of eight and um done a lot of exciting projects and had a lot of fun along the way, and um plan to keep it going here for a little bit um, I'm erin foy.
Speaker 3:I'm the other architect in the office and I joined this firm in 2015 after working at another firm here in Asheville yeah, from here, grew up here, left for school a couple different times and came back and then left again, and it's just a good place to be and a good place to practice architecture and, yeah, that's where I'm at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. I mean, it seems like there's a lot of interesting projects and a lot of interesting things going on around Asheville and western North Carolina. So I agree with you, it must be, from a design standpoint, it must be a really interesting place to practice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's continuously evolving. I mean from well, especially since I don't know from the recession to through COVID, through Helene. This is just. You know, it's always changing in terms of what we're doing and who's coming to town and who's interested in building here and what projects are happening and who can afford to do what, and so, yeah, it's definitely it's constantly evolving.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we're. You know Asheville I mean, helene, you know, obviously was a setback but it's. But you know we're back on the rise again, so it's, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty cool, it's a pretty cool place. Let me ask you a question If you had to start it over again, what would you do differently?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I think it's been such a fun and wild and diverse ride and I don't know if I would. I would probably try to figure out how to make our systems more efficient and you know just some monetary things about. You know I have no business background, so that took a pretty big learning curve. But as far as the experience, I don't know if that would change a whole lot because it's just kind of evolved from just being a reactionary to whatever kind of the community was needing and wanting Like for a while.
Speaker 2:We've done a lot of small commercial projects when that was been. We've done a lot of residential projects. We've met a lot of small commercial projects when that was been. We've done a lot of residential projects. We've met a lot of really fun business owners along the way and created long-term relationships with repeat clients. And yeah, there's definitely micro things that have changed. But as far as the big picture of just kind of feeling our way through this and becoming a part of the community and touching so many different parts and projects and meeting so many people, it's been a pretty good experience. So I'd be hesitant to tinker with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get that a lot. Actually, I think the experiences we have make us who we are, so I do get that. Hey, I might do this or I might tweak this thing, like you just said, like I might have worked on systems earlier or I might have, you know, had some business education or something along those lines. So along the way there had to be learnings. So what are some of the biggest learnings that you guys have had?
Speaker 2:There's been several.
Speaker 2:I mean, for me you know I've been here since the beginning, obviously been here since the beginning obviously it was a lot of um, just realizing the value of having a team and letting people excel at what they're good at and kind of letting go and kind of utilizing the benefits of having a team um and just the strength of that and the support they can get from a, you know, studio environment.
Speaker 2:Know a lot of architects kind of work in one room by themselves and I'd say the majority in the country are sole proprietors and that's just a kind of a different existence and I think there's a lot of value on that. But what was really enlightening for me was just the value of kind of a hive mind and working together and sharing information and supporting each other and kind of letting everyone in the office have ownership over projects and being accountable. So like that was really enlightening for me. And I actually learned that from when I moved to town. I worked for a really good architect here named Robert Griffin and he sort of had that same approach where he gave us so much autonomy and independence and kind of helped us along the way and it was just, you know, I never had an experience like that, where all the team members are accountable for what happens, and so I learned a lot from that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I love that, so tell us about your team Well it's me and Aaron's, a licensed architect that oversees a lot of projects and designs a lot of projects, and we have, let's see, we have an intern and Erin's, a licensed architect that oversees a lot of projects and designs a lot of projects, and we have, let's see, we have an intern and we have an interior designer, which has been a lot of fun to have that component in our office. She brings a lot of experience and diversity to our projects and we have several designers several I four designs yeah that kind of all manage independent projects and work together and collaborate.
Speaker 1:So what's the difference between like designers and what y'all do?
Speaker 3:um it well, it um has to do mostly with licensure and passing the tests and going through the steps to get your license. So the other kind of there's the interior designer, and so that's where her background is, her educational background is, and then there's an intern who went to architecture school but hasn't worked long enough and passed all the tests to be licensed enough and passed all the tests to be licensed. And then there's four other designers who all also went to architecture school but then just didn't go through the licensure process or haven't gone through it yet. And so, like, with a license, you just there's more liability, there's more responsibility, but then there's also the capacity to practice solo and do commercial stuff and whatnot. So you have more options with a license but you also have, I think, a lot more responsibility and liability.
Speaker 1:Got it.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Got it, I got it. So what are some of the common misconceptions about running an architecture firm and how would you address those?
Speaker 2:I would say, and not that they're misconceptions, but just a lot of the public is sort of confused about what we do. Like a lot of the clients that we get they've never worked with an architect before and really don't even know what they're stepping into or how much it costs or how long does it take and do I even need an architect? And so there's just a general lack of just understanding about our field just in the general public. And that's understandable, because most people go through their whole lives and don't hire an architect to do anything. Like we're not required to help you design your house, or you know, unless you're starting a business or designing a big custom home. Like a lot of people don't interact with us, you know.
Speaker 2:But, um, for some reason Asheville is such a small town but we end up working a lot of projects. We're kind of a highly regulated, um sort of building department here and so that kind of brings us and the different architects around town into a lot of projects to figure out life, safety and occupancy and all the technical side of things, and so and that's just kind of something people aren't used to and it's, you know, if someone wants to open a coffee shop. They think they can just rent a space and open it up and start selling coffee. But there's just a lot of paperwork between that and opening up, and so we ended up having to explain that process quite a bit and saying with homeowners like, what value do we bring and how do we get you from you know your ideas on Pinterest to then starting construction of the home. So no, there's a misconception, there's just a lot of explaining that has to kind of go on, because people don't normally interact with architects on a daily basis.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it's a project-based profession and I mean most people would do in a lifetime, maybe one, maybe two projects. I mean they're obviously the ones that do multiple projects, developers and those kind of people. But I mean it's got to be. Yeah, I get it. I mean you guys do the stuff all day long and then most people are walking in, sort of ignorant of how it works. So, yeah, it makes a lot of sense. I like that. I like that. So you guys have obviously grown. I mean you started with you and you started in the recession, and that's I like that. So you guys have obviously grown. I mean it started with you and you started in the recession, and that's now eight people. So what do you attribute that growth to?
Speaker 2:I would um, there was no real strategy. Like this has all just kind of been reactionary and kind of safe. It's like, um, you know we didn't grow. And then find the projects. It was more like, oh gosh, we have an overwhelming number of projects that we definitely want to do and we're not going to not do these. They're incredible opportunities and so then we would grow to match that opportunity. So I'm not sure if that's kind of the right path or not. It's kind of a safer way to grow, rather than, you know, projecting all this volume and staffing up and that sort of thing. And so I would say there wasn't any real strategy there. It was just me seeing these opportunities to have a really fun career and touch all these different projects and be a part of it and then having enough people and resources to do that. So that's kind of what we struggled with for a long time. It was like we have these projects, how are we going to get them done?
Speaker 3:Well, I have a slightly different perspective, just coming in after he had been doing it for eight years, and I think that part of what has like contributed to the growth is just like a positive experience that previous clients had or his friends had, or you know people around town, and so that kind of word of mouth, reputation spreads and it creates more projects and it creates repeat clients, and so it's like you know, if you offer a positive service and people have a good experience, then either they tell their friend or they come back for the next project or whatever. So I think when I started that was my perception of like well, he just has this really good base and has a good reputation, you know, and so I think that has kind of continued and I think that's contributed to the growth, whether you know that was real intentional or not. Like I think that was a big piece of it, cause, like, as far as marketing goes, like you know, we've never been super aggressive.
Speaker 1:Um, or competent yeah well, no, it's all right, I mean it. It seems like you've staffed up as you needed to, but that positivity and that sort of I get it. You guys are seem like you have fun. I mean, enjoy what you do and like being at work and love doing things. I mean I've always thought architecture was a cool profession anyway, because you get to, I mean you can design something, and then it's there for a while and you can say, hey, that's cool, that's something I had something to do with. Creating. This, you know, beautiful piece of something, you know, whatever it is, whether it's a building or house or whatever it is, I've always thought that was cool. You know, I don't, I don't have the aesthetic, uh, I I might, might, might, give fly other places, but uh, but I certainly do appreciate what, um, what you guys, what you guys are doing out there. So let me ask you something when you are looking for an employee, what are you looking for?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. Um, it's mostly, uh, where in our realm of what we do? Um, it's mostly um versatility and positivity and, I guess, adaptability, because there are days in here when you have no idea what's going to happen and you kind of have to be flexible enough to shift gears and change hats, and I mean the projects we have are just all over the board. You know we do medical facilities and barns and houses and greenhouses, and you know restaurants and bars, and you kind of have to be pretty flexible and open-minded. And so I guess, um, all the technical stuff you can kind of learn, and so a lot of people that have come in here had no experience with the software and um, kind of very little experience with project management. But that's that's stuff.
Speaker 3:That's all pretty teachable if you put the hours on, and so what I've found is just it's more the mindset of um wanting to get after it and being positive and being able to communicate, kind of all the intangibles and there's been different times like I think along the way at least that I've been here that you know we'll be like, ah, we need somebody like that's bringing a ton of creativity, you know that's just going to like throw crazy ideas out there. Or like we need somebody that is real excited about the technical stuff, because we need help in the production area with the technical stuff, you know. And so there have been times that we're like this is the type of person we need. But ultimately, like when you know we have gone to hire somebody, it has more to do with like what Brent said.
Speaker 3:It's like enthusiasm and versatility and like, you know, are they going to be able to kind of figure some stuff out on their own, because we don't have a real specific training structure in place for when, like, okay, we have a new person, so-and-so is going to train them and then so-and-so is going to work with them. This way, it just is pretty organic in terms of how they fit in and to the whole process in the office and everything. And so, yeah, that ability to figure it out on your own and then also take, you know, feedback and work with people and ask questions, and it's really important in a small office that doesn't have a real specific structure.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean I love it. I mean it's the culture you've created Versatility, adaptability, positivity. I mean it's the culture you've created versatility, adaptability, positivity. I mean that's pretty hard to beat. I mean that sounds like a fun place to work. So yeah, to me. I mean there may be some people that hate that, but that would be. You know, I'm one of those idea people. So let me ask you so BEPIC is sort of my acronym for our business and I'm going to just give you a. You know, I'll give you what the letters are and then you give me your thoughts, like a quick, sort of a quick fire round of what it is. Give me a word or a sentence or two about each one, so the B stands for bring the energy. What do you think about that, erin? Each one, so the B stands for bring the energy.
Speaker 3:What do you think about that Erin Like with respect to BCA, or just respect to the job, or what?
Speaker 1:However, you want to do it. Just what do you think about energy?
Speaker 3:Well, I think it's really important, at least with our clients, to kind of maintain that energy and enthusiasm for, regardless what the project is and where they're at in the process, I think it's pretty important to maintain like the energy for them, because it can be a pretty difficult, grueling process to go through, whether it's commercial or residential, and so just kind of being supportive with them and helping them through that in an energetic way maybe.
Speaker 2:It's a long haul for people. You know some of our residential clients are in here for almost a year and so there's a project fatigue that happens. And if the designer's not bringing the energy and you know they're running out of energy because of just the length and the kind of nature of getting something built in West North Carolina like it definitely takes a lot of energy to enthusiastically get through it.
Speaker 1:It definitely takes a lot of energy and enthusiasm to get through it. Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that building something is kind of a short-term marriage, and you know I mean. So I mean that's a good point that you've got to show up with the energy to keep the process moving, because there's going to be lows right, there's going to be highs, but there's going to be lows.
Speaker 2:So it's pretty interesting. For the most part it kind of happens organically, like it is exciting when someone's designing a building house, and if it's exciting for us then it's an honor for us to do it, and so there's just kind of a natural energy and enthusiasm that happens Like there are definitely dips, you know, when it comes to hitting bumps along the way, but for the most part, like this profession kind of generates, that's kind of a big deal in our profession. Like Aaron was saying about licensure, you really have to go through a bachelor program, you have to go through a master's program or some combination of those, and that's a lot of school for them. And the back end of our profession doesn't have the same financial rewards as some of the other ones where you go to school for six or seven years. So there is kind of a big commitment when it comes to just the formal education and so getting through that, getting to the field, kind of takes a minute, especially, you know, in today's terms, where there's all these shortcuts and things that can happen and they can do without all that process. And so there's, you know, there's bachelors and masters, there's internship, there's the exams, there's all these things that you know, stand in the way between high school and being an architect, and they're all doable and helpful. But then the real education actually happens once you start. School can only simulate real projects so much, and so the bulk of our education happens in that first five years of being in an office and sitting at the computer and going through the process of a whole project and sending the computer and going through the process of a whole project.
Speaker 3:I would also add to that, like we kind of have to be intentional about staying in front of the latest materials and technologies and things that are happening, because when clients show up, lots of them do their own research, you know, and they'll hear from their friends or whatever, and they bring a new material or they ask about this new, you know, I don't know wall assembly or something, and so we kind of have to stay in front of that too.
Speaker 3:So we don't look like we're, you know, living in the past few decades and haven't really kept up with things and the evolution of all the different things that go into construction, whether it's a house or commercial stuff, and on top of that, like building code stuff, like that is just it's so enormous, and so, whether it is residential or commercial, like the building code stuff is kind of evolving and that we have to stay in front of because we'll screw, you know, if we screw that up, that's a big deal, and so, like every project we still are learning, you know, all these different kind of pieces of it we have to keep, yeah, keep on top of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think the complexity of the building code, so so it's codes, not just codes. I mean you guys work in a lot of jurisdictions. They can be different. I mean I know the north carolina building code's one thing, but then they've got the uh, then they've got it, for you know all the jurisdictions. So I mean it mean that's a tough ask, so well done on that. So the P is planning, so you guys do plans, so let's talk about planning a little bit.
Speaker 2:Planning is hard. You know, there's this famous quote from I think it was Mike Tyson, where everyone has a plan to get punched in the face, you know. So there are several months, we come in here with the. There's a general plan, and you know we have a big whiteboard, you know, with a matrix of what's going on and who's doing what, and, um, you end up doing a lot of erasing and moving and putting things here and putting things there. Um, we have a general framework of a plan but, like I said, like this is.
Speaker 2:This is an environment here in asheville where things stop and start with very little notice. There's projects that are gung-ho and we've devoted dedicated staff to them and we're all ready to go, and then we get a call that it's not happening. Or we get a call that someone who mothballed their project two years ago is ready to go, and so, um, we have a framework of a plan and we have systems in place to move things around, but we can't ever look that far out and I think if we did, we'd miss a lot of opportunities and we'd end up scrambling. So our plan is to have a loose plan.
Speaker 1:I like it. I like it a lot. Okay, the C stands for commitment. Oh, I skipped I, let's do I, I is inspiration. Oh, I skipped I, let's do I, I is inspiration.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, well gosh, there's inspiration everywhere. I mean, especially now, with just all the access to anything you can find online, whether it's Pinterest or Instagram or anything, we're constantly being flooded with inspiration in terms of projects that would be really cool, or ideas or or or or things like that. And then sometimes it's just like the clients coming in that have this really beautiful, um idea of what their project is going to be, whether it's a house or commercial project or whatever. So that's also inspiring when clients come in and they're so passionate about whatever they're going to do and, um, it's not just about checking boxes to get you know, the right I don't know double oven in the kitchen or something. So I think that we have a lot of sources of inspiration, yeah, whether it's the media or clients, or just, yeah, being around here.
Speaker 2:I mean, obviously, around here, it's been this super resilient community and people are resourceful, and whether it's the, the things that you know everybody has been through, or also just this is a hard place to build, and so people have to be somewhat creative and, um, resilient, and that's pretty um inspiring, let's say yeah, and if you're not inspired by the just the natural beauty we have here and, as an architect in western north carolina, like we're in a pretty privileged place to have the scenery and the landscape and the resources we have and for a small town, we have a ton of architects and all the ones I know are inspiring and they want to do things that are sustainable and ecological and fit in the landscape and for long-term planning, and so there's a lot of people here that are inspiring and definitely the environment's inspiring.
Speaker 1:No, I like it. I like it. Yeah, the C is commitment. So what are your thoughts on commitment?
Speaker 2:Well, it's too late for me. I've been doing this for 30 years, so I'm committed and can't do anything else.
Speaker 2:So that just kind of happened because it's hard to switch gears at some point in your life. So now I'm just kind of committed to making sure everyone here has a sustainable future and a fun place to work and be able to live in Asheville, which is kind of a hard thing to do in the service industry. So I'm committed to seeing this through and just kind of building on what we've created here as far as generating ideas and producing things that people need to get through the process.
Speaker 1:Love it. You got any more thoughts on that, Erin?
Speaker 3:I mean I guess I can look at it like at more of a micro level, just that you know, with each of the projects, like it takes a certain level of commitment to stay invested in it and to stay connected with the client and as to bring the same amount of enthusiasm towards the end of the project that we inevitably bring at the beginning, because the beginning is so exciting and it's all you know, it's all brand new, we just got you know. And then towards the end, like um, you know, like who's mentioned that project fatigue, like I think you just it takes a certain amount of commitment to just stay invested and like say, you know, keep up, up with everything, keep up with the client, and, um, kind of hold their hand through the process from beginning to end yeah, no, I love that, I love that.
Speaker 1:So what's the next thing for the firm?
Speaker 2:I guess you'll have to have us on next year and we'll let you know. There's a crazy word out there like it um, we thought we'd spend this whole year just doing flood repair and, um, helping people dig out, you know, and that's just been kind of a process like people are waiting for their money, people are waiting to figure out what to do, um, how to rebuild in the floodplain. So we thought we kind of knew it was coming, um, and we are doing some of that and you know, we thought we were going to be doing you know one thing and then you can look back over the year and we've done something totally different. So I think the forecast for ashtonville still pretty strong, I think everyone still loves it and is committed to it, but we have no idea what's going to happen you got any thoughts, aaron?
Speaker 3:um no, I mean, we're constantly brainstorming like, oh, do this, do this, do this, you know? But it's like it, you know. It's kind of probably just the same way that company has evolved since he started. It's like things happen kind of organically and like it just whatever. There is some like definite value to intentionality and like picking a path and like going in a direction, but also there's a lot of value to just being open to kind of whatever's happening in front of you and following those signs and those paths and you know, yeah, so, yeah, a plan is good, but I don't know. Yeah, I don't have much more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was reading a book the other day and they were talking about like. What they were really talking about was test and measure. They used an analogy of like firing a bullet in a direction and seeing if it hit something, and then, if it did, then you could fire a cannonball, in other words. But if you fired and missed a lot, then it was sort of just test and measure. So I think that's probably a way you know try a path and see what happens, try another path and see what happens, and then you can go all in on a path that seems to be working, you know. So I think that's actually a plan that you know, a way to plan, you know for the other. Third, so the last thing is how do people get in touch with you? It's the best way.
Speaker 3:Well, like the website has all the contact information on it, and or we're down on the South Slope, Like you know, we do have people stop by. We don't have cold calls necessarily, but we're always open if people want to come in and talk or call us up or email or whatever. Yeah, we're pretty available and responsive, I would say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what's the website?
Speaker 2:It's wwwbcavlcom.
Speaker 1:Bcavlcom bcavlcom Got it.
Speaker 2:And we keep overhead low. So if you call the phone number it's just my cell phone. So you can talk to the administrative people.
Speaker 1:Well, that makes sense to me. If you want to chat, give them a call. Hey look, really appreciate you. This is a fantastic story I've enjoyed. I appreciate you guys being part of the community and all you're doing, and we certainly wish you continued positivity and adaptability and flexibility and all that stuff so interesting.
Speaker 3:Thanks, very much, thank you.
Speaker 1:Hey, and until next time, all the best.
Speaker 3:Thanks, bye.